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	<title>
	Comments on: Mortality and Cardiovascular Disease Rates of Vegetarians	</title>
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	<link>https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/</link>
	<description>Evidence-Based Nutrient Recommendations</description>
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		<title>
		By: JackNorrisRD		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-5466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JackNorrisRD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Aug 2024 13:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://staging.veganhealth.org/?page_id=1203#comment-5466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-5465&quot;&gt;ConfusedReader&lt;/a&gt;.

Sorry, I should probably add a summary at the top of the article so people don&#039;t have to read the details. Overall, there&#039;s a strong case that vegetarians (including vegans) don&#039;t have a significant difference in mortality rates between regular meat-eaters, other things being equal. Vegetarians (including vegans) appear to have a lower incidence of heart disease and vegans, especially, have a lower incidence of type 2 diabetes. This means that vegetarians are probably healthier while alive, but don&#039;t necessarily live longer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-5465">ConfusedReader</a>.</p>
<p>Sorry, I should probably add a summary at the top of the article so people don&#8217;t have to read the details. Overall, there&#8217;s a strong case that vegetarians (including vegans) don&#8217;t have a significant difference in mortality rates between regular meat-eaters, other things being equal. Vegetarians (including vegans) appear to have a lower incidence of heart disease and vegans, especially, have a lower incidence of type 2 diabetes. This means that vegetarians are probably healthier while alive, but don&#8217;t necessarily live longer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ConfusedReader		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-5465</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ConfusedReader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Aug 2024 01:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://staging.veganhealth.org/?page_id=1203#comment-5465</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am so confused. Some of these show higher mortality rates others don&#039;t? Is this healthy or not?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so confused. Some of these show higher mortality rates others don&#8217;t? Is this healthy or not?</p>
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		<title>
		By: JackNorrisRD		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-4893</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JackNorrisRD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2020 22:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://staging.veganhealth.org/?page_id=1203#comment-4893</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-4887&quot;&gt;Nigel&lt;/a&gt;.

Nigel,

The Humane Research Council study on vegetarian recidivism was a cross-sectional study and had no limit on the length of time someone had to be vegetarian (or vegan) before they could qualify as an ex-vegetarian. In other words, if someone considered themselves to follow a vegetarian diet for one day, they would have qualified to be an ex-vegetarian for the survey.

On the other hand, cohort studies measuring disease rates in vegetarians are prospective studies that follow people through time and measure their disease outcomes. They usually require that someone be a vegetarian for some period of time. For example, the &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4691673/pdf/ajcn119461.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;EPIC-Oxford study&lt;/a&gt; participants were given follow-up surveys approximately 5, 10, and 15 years after entering the study to verify their diet.

The authors state, &quot;When we excluded data for participants known to have changed diet group at least once during follow-up, leaving data for 4270 deaths before age 90, there was no significant difference in risk between diet groups for all causes of death combined, as follows: low meat eaters, HR: 0.93 (95% CI: 0.85, 1.02); fish eaters, HR: 0.91 (95% CI: 0.81, 1.02); and vegetarians and vegans, HR: 0.92 (95% CI: 0.84, 0.99) compared with regular meat eaters.&quot; They don&#039;t indicate how many people went from meat-eater to fish-eater to vegetarian, or the other direction, or whether they tested to see if one direction impacted the results more than another.

The Vegetarian Resource Group conducted a &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.vrg.org/research/retention_survey_2009.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow ugc&quot;&gt;prospective study among their members&lt;/a&gt; and found a high retention rate among those completing the follow-up survey, including, &quot;One hundred percent of vegan males stayed vegan, while 83% of females stayed vegan.&quot; We don&#039;t know how well that extrapolates to other vegetarians, but it&#039;s a stark contrast to the Humane Research Council&#039;s study and used an arguably better methodology for determining recidivism rates (i.e., prospective instead of cross-sectional and based on people who presumably had some resolve in being vegetarian).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-4887">Nigel</a>.</p>
<p>Nigel,</p>
<p>The Humane Research Council study on vegetarian recidivism was a cross-sectional study and had no limit on the length of time someone had to be vegetarian (or vegan) before they could qualify as an ex-vegetarian. In other words, if someone considered themselves to follow a vegetarian diet for one day, they would have qualified to be an ex-vegetarian for the survey.</p>
<p>On the other hand, cohort studies measuring disease rates in vegetarians are prospective studies that follow people through time and measure their disease outcomes. They usually require that someone be a vegetarian for some period of time. For example, the <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4691673/pdf/ajcn119461.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">EPIC-Oxford study</a> participants were given follow-up surveys approximately 5, 10, and 15 years after entering the study to verify their diet.</p>
<p>The authors state, &#8220;When we excluded data for participants known to have changed diet group at least once during follow-up, leaving data for 4270 deaths before age 90, there was no significant difference in risk between diet groups for all causes of death combined, as follows: low meat eaters, HR: 0.93 (95% CI: 0.85, 1.02); fish eaters, HR: 0.91 (95% CI: 0.81, 1.02); and vegetarians and vegans, HR: 0.92 (95% CI: 0.84, 0.99) compared with regular meat eaters.&#8221; They don&#8217;t indicate how many people went from meat-eater to fish-eater to vegetarian, or the other direction, or whether they tested to see if one direction impacted the results more than another.</p>
<p>The Vegetarian Resource Group conducted a <a href="https://www.vrg.org/research/retention_survey_2009.php" rel="nofollow ugc">prospective study among their members</a> and found a high retention rate among those completing the follow-up survey, including, &#8220;One hundred percent of vegan males stayed vegan, while 83% of females stayed vegan.&#8221; We don&#8217;t know how well that extrapolates to other vegetarians, but it&#8217;s a stark contrast to the Humane Research Council&#8217;s study and used an arguably better methodology for determining recidivism rates (i.e., prospective instead of cross-sectional and based on people who presumably had some resolve in being vegetarian).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nigel		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-4887</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nigel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2020 11:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://staging.veganhealth.org/?page_id=1203#comment-4887</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You link the (excellent) veganrd.com on your website.  One article there, &#039;Why some people fail at being vegan&#039;, refers to the US Human Research Council study of 11k US citizens.  It was found that 12% are or had at one time been vegan.  Of these, 70% had given up their plant-based diet.  It seems to be that about 45% of the &#039;gave-uppers&#039; did so because they felt unwell and many of them felt better on returning to being omnivorous.   Turning to the statistics you quote for vegan longevity, you conclude as follows:  &#039;In summary, not enough is yet known about vegan mortality to draw any conclusions other than that vegans do not have unusually high rates of mortality and they probably do better than the average person due either to diet or a healthier lifestyle&#039;.  Is it not the case that these statistics measure those vegans that have felt healthy and thus persisted with the diet, but they exclude the 45% who felt unwell and gave up.  Can it not be said, therefore, that the results are greatly skewed?  The &#039;vegan unwell&#039; jumped ship while the &#039;vegan well&#039; got into the mortality statistics, giving a favourable bias to the results.  Therefore, in no way can it be said that vegans live as long omnivores.  It can only be said that it appears that vegans who feel well on a plant-based diet live as long as omnivores.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You link the (excellent) veganrd.com on your website.  One article there, &#8216;Why some people fail at being vegan&#8217;, refers to the US Human Research Council study of 11k US citizens.  It was found that 12% are or had at one time been vegan.  Of these, 70% had given up their plant-based diet.  It seems to be that about 45% of the &#8216;gave-uppers&#8217; did so because they felt unwell and many of them felt better on returning to being omnivorous.   Turning to the statistics you quote for vegan longevity, you conclude as follows:  &#8216;In summary, not enough is yet known about vegan mortality to draw any conclusions other than that vegans do not have unusually high rates of mortality and they probably do better than the average person due either to diet or a healthier lifestyle&#8217;.  Is it not the case that these statistics measure those vegans that have felt healthy and thus persisted with the diet, but they exclude the 45% who felt unwell and gave up.  Can it not be said, therefore, that the results are greatly skewed?  The &#8216;vegan unwell&#8217; jumped ship while the &#8216;vegan well&#8217; got into the mortality statistics, giving a favourable bias to the results.  Therefore, in no way can it be said that vegans live as long omnivores.  It can only be said that it appears that vegans who feel well on a plant-based diet live as long as omnivores.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JackNorrisRD		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-2271</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JackNorrisRD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2018 15:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://staging.veganhealth.org/?page_id=1203#comment-2271</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-2258&quot;&gt;Nikita Zhuk&lt;/a&gt;.

Nikita,

Good catch, it&#039;s fixed. Thanks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-2258">Nikita Zhuk</a>.</p>
<p>Nikita,</p>
<p>Good catch, it&#8217;s fixed. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nikita Zhuk		</title>
		<link>https://staging.veganhealth.org/chronic-disease-and-vegetarian-diets/vegetarian-cohorts/#comment-2258</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nikita Zhuk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2018 09:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://staging.veganhealth.org/?page_id=1203#comment-2258</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Based on the fact that Seventh-day Adventists have long been aware that vitamin B12 cannot be found in animal (??? maybe NON-ANIMAL? or PLANT?) products and are a tight community with strong support for vegetarianism, it seems likely that vitamin B12 deficiency would be less likely in the Adventist Health Study than in British vegetarians.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Based on the fact that Seventh-day Adventists have long been aware that vitamin B12 cannot be found in animal (??? maybe NON-ANIMAL? or PLANT?) products and are a tight community with strong support for vegetarianism, it seems likely that vitamin B12 deficiency would be less likely in the Adventist Health Study than in British vegetarians.&#8221;</p>
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